Have you been told that it takes at least three years to be profitable in a nutrition business? Does the thought of that make you second guess starting your business? It doesn’t have to be that way! You can create a profitable business much faster!
In today’s episode, Libby is talking with Melissa Groves Azzaro. Melissa is an integrative registered dietitian and owner of Avocado Grove Nutrition and Wellness, an in-person and virtual private practice specializing in women’s health and hormone issues including PCOS and fertility. Melissa uses the functional medicine foods first approach that combines holistic lifestyle changes with evidence-based medicine.
“I have a very, very clear picture of who the person that I’m talking to is, and I talk only to that person.” – Melissa Groves Azzaro
In today’s episode…
- What her nutrition philosophy is?
- How did she get into her niche?
- What helped her get more clear with her ideal client?
- How getting more clear has helped her build her business?
- What tips she has for other dietitians that struggle with mindset?
- What her process is for strategically posting on Instagram and the outcomes from it?
- How she moves people from her free Facebook groups to her paid?
Guest Resources:
Connect with Melissa on Instagram, Facebook and on Twitter
Free Resources from Libby
Are you ready to start your journey? Apply today for my Dietitian Boss Group Coaching program!
Transcript
Libby Rothschild (00:00):
I’m Libby Rothschild, former clinical dietitian who transformed into a full-time virtual business owner. It was only one year ago when I made $55,000 a year in my clinical job, and now I make $100,000 a month being my own boss, and you can do this, too. My clients, who are all female dietitians and students, started from zero and created six-figure, multi-six figure businesses by following my proven method. They’ve all been guests on air. My proven method shows you how to attract cash-paying clients using social media marketing strategies that work. You don’t have to guess, waste time, or hold yourself back when you follow my step-by-step method.
Libby Rothschild (00:43):
Melissa Groves Azzaro, RDN, LD, is an integrative registered dietitian and owner of Avocado Grove Nutrition & Wellness, an in-person and virtual private practice specializing in women’s health and hormone issues, including PCOS and fertility. Melissa uses the Functional Medicine, “foods first” approach that combines holistic lifestyle changes with evidence-based medicine.
Libby Rothschild (01:05):
Melissa is a second career dietitian, having worked as a copywriter and editor in New York City advertising for 15 years before going back to school for nutrition. Melissa was awarded the Emerging Women’s Health dietitian in 2019 by the Women’s Health DPG, and an UPWARD award from Food Minds in 2019. She has a cookbook, A Balanced Approach to PCOS, coming out in August of this year, which is available for pre-order on Amazon. Additionally, her course, PCOS Root Cause Roadmap, will be re-launching for a second time this spring. She has served on DIFN Leadership Team, Social Media Chair, since 2018, and is the upcoming Chair-elect. She also serves on the New Hampshire State Board as a Professional Development Chair. If you could share your social media handles with us?
Melissa Groves Azzaro (01:53):
Yeah, my website is avocadogrovenutrition.com. I’ve not yet changed that over because it’s a mean switch. It’s so difficult. Everywhere else I’m the Hormone dietitian, so on Instagram, I’m the.hormonedietitian. On Facebook, it’s the same. And on Twitter I’m @thehormonerd.
Libby Rothschild (02:17):
Fantastic. And I have to ask since you gave multiple social feeds, which one is your favorite and why?
Melissa Groves Azzaro (02:23):
Absolutely Instagram. When I started all my social accounts at the same time, it was just so much easier to grow and develop that community on Instagram versus the others. I literally hate Twitter. I hate Twitter. It’s full of mean people. I feel like I’m a little old to start TikTok, but maybe I’ll hire an intern to do that for me.
Libby Rothschild (02:54):
Cool. Yeah, it’s definitely fun. I’m biased but I’m obsessed with Instagram, and I love your work on Instagram, so I was just curious which one is your favorite, but we’ll get into that, I’m sure.
Melissa Groves Azzaro (03:06):
Yeah, thank you.
Libby Rothschild (03:07):
If you could start off, Melissa, and talk about your nutrition philosophy for those who aren’t following you or don’t know who you are, I want to make sure that they’re clear with your standpoint.
Melissa Groves Azzaro (03:17):
I use a Functional Medicine Root Cause approach using food as medicine to address hormonal imbalances, such as PCOS and fertility issues, and I do that without eliminating any foods. So it’s really what can we add to your diet to make it better is really my philosophy.
Libby Rothschild (03:40):
Fantastic. And how did you get into that niche and specialty?
Melissa Groves Azzaro (03:45):
It’s funny, one of my first jobs as an RD was working for a local Functional Medicine RD who specialized in gut health, so I would see all of the weight-loss clients. And when you’re working from a Functional Medicine perspective, I would look at these clients and look at what they were eating, how much they were exercising, and it was like, “I don’t understand why you’re not losing weight, like calories in, calories out. It’s not adding up.” When we would start to do the digging and we would get lab tests back on them, I would see that there was almost always a hormonal issue, either they had high insulin or high cortisol or low thyroid, or they had a condition like PCOS, which I thought was really interesting.
Melissa Groves Azzaro (04:32):
So when I left that practice and opened my own, I knew I wanted to specialize in women’s health, and in particular, I felt like women with PCOS had been given a bum rap by conventional medicine, and there was a lot of room to help those women above and beyond what they were getting.
Libby Rothschild (04:54):
Yeah, thank you for sharing that story. I love that you took that personal experience and noticed some patterns and were able to really lean into that, right? Empower women through, obviously, what you do now with your business and your amazing marketing message. Are you comfortable sharing with the audience about your goals and how much money you make?
Melissa Groves Azzaro (05:15):
A little bit. I can say I started my business in January 2018, and I remember reading in Facebook groups, “Oh, don’t expect to be profitable in the nutrition business for at least three years.” And I remember reading that quote that’s, “In year one, they sleep. In year two, they creep. And in year three they leap.” And I was like, “Three years is a really, really long time to go making my money.”
Melissa Groves Azzaro (05:49):
I was working another job when I started my practice. I had a really, really fun job as a retail dietitian at a local grocery store chain, so I was in there doing food demos, and it was just twice a week, so it was really the perfect stability to allow me to grow my practice on the side. I actually ended up leaving that position much sooner than I anticipated because my practice picked up so quickly.
Melissa Groves Azzaro (06:18):
So, yeah, within six months I was profitable. I had a pretty decent first year, and then 2019 which was my full second year in practice was a six-figure a year, and I’m on track to do better than that this year, as well.
Libby Rothschild (06:35):
Congratulations.
Melissa Groves Azzaro (06:36):
And this year I’ve added, in addition to one-on-one clients, I’ve also added courses so definitely on track.
Libby Rothschild (06:44):
Thank you for sharing that with the audience. I really like that reframe of how you were told it’ll take three years, and you said, “Nope. Six months.” I think that sends such a great message to dietitians who feel that it might take five or ten years and it discourages them from getting started and taking it seriously.
Melissa Groves Azzaro (07:03):
Yeah, I would like to say, coming from a place where I worked in advertising where a six-figure salary in New York City, basically means you can pay for rent and food maybe. But by the end, I was a vice-president. I was making decent money, so my goal was to make as much in my nutrition practice as I did in advertising. Last year I missed that mark by $6,000 in my second year.
Libby Rothschild (07:31):
That’s fantastic. It mostly gives you an edge, though, to say that you want to match that, because I do feel like a lot of dietitians listening, at least in my experience, is that they’re not clear with revenue goals, and if you’re not clear with what you want to make and what you want to match, it’s harder to actually get there, so I hope for the listeners this is inspiring for you to set revenue goals and realize that you can do it sooner, and when you have clarity it inspires you to go on that track.
Melissa Groves Azzaro (07:57):
Absolutely.
Libby Rothschild (07:58):
Yeah, excellent. Okay. You did talk about why you chose to go into the hormone space, and PCOS, and you had experiences with women and you identified issues. Can you talk about what allowed you to get more clear with your ideal client, and how that changed any of your marketing?
Melissa Groves Azzaro (08:21):
I had already done a little work on identifying my ideal customer avatar, my ICA based on past clients that I enjoyed working with the most and that made me really refine that, so I have a very, very clear picture of who the person that I’m talking to is, and I talk only to that person.
Melissa Groves Azzaro (08:51):
It’s funny, I’ll occasionally get messages from women not in my exact niche asking for more content on PCOS and menopause, or… I got one where someone was telling me I shouldn’t use the term “women with PCOS” because it doesn’t address the trans-men who also have PCOS. I’m like, “Okay. I get it. I totally get it.” However, I’m speaking to 32-year-old Kayla who lives in New York City and has a job much like the job that I used to have, so she doesn’t have time to meal prep. She travels all the time for work. She doesn’t really cook. She’s starting to think about her fertility, but she’s not actively trying to get pregnant so I really interviewed a lot of potential ICAs about their lifestyle and, basically, where they shop, what they read, what they listen to, what they wear. I really know this woman, for sure.
Libby Rothschild (09:58):
That’s fantastic. And how has you getting clear with this woman paid off in your ability to build your business?
Melissa Groves Azzaro (10:07):
Yeah, the first thing I did pretty early on was develop those message buckets of the types of posts that I post, and they address particular needs in her life. As opposed to in the beginning when I was posting pretty food pictures and things that I thought they needed to learn or wanted to know, where now I really know what they want to know.
Libby Rothschild (10:39):
Absolutely. So you’re clear with the ideal client. You know what kind of content to make for her. And then your mindset is able to understand when your audience says things like, “I want you to create content for something different,” but then respect that you’re creating content for one person, and when you double-down on that, you’re able to serve and deliver better for that person and realize you’re not talking to everybody, which is a lesson that’s so hard for all of us to learn.
Melissa Groves Azzaro (11:03):
Honestly, every time I get an email back from… I have my nurture sequence and every time I get an email back saying, “It’s like you’re in my brain,” I’m like, “I know I’m doing exactly the right thing.”
Libby Rothschild (11:18):
That’s fantastic and so does that help your mindset when you have hard days when you have to say, “You know what, I’m on track. I know that there’s always going to be that 10 or 15% that rattles you.”
Melissa Groves Azzaro (11:32):
I know it’s because I’m a little bit older, as well, but I’m definitely at that point in my life where I don’t really care what other people think. If I’m not for you, goodbye. Unfollow. Nice to meet you, go on your way. I really don’t let that stuff affect me at all, and I know so many dietitians get caught up in that number like, “Oh, my god, 130 people unfollowed me today.” In my mind, that means you’re doing something right because you’re making them… What’s the word when they self-eliminate as an ideal client? It’s like they’re taking themselves out of the pool for you. You don’t have to worry about it when people unfollow or unsubscribe.” [crosstalk 00:12:19] I don’t have to pay for you on my email list.
Libby Rothschild (12:21):
Right. You have a really good positive mindset about that. You’re, obviously, great at reframing, which is… You’re successful and successful people have a positive mindset. What tips do you have since you mentioned a lot of dietitians do struggle with this? A lot of my listeners are not able to do that yet, so do you have any advice for them?
Melissa Groves Azzaro (12:43):
Yeah, you really can’t, and I talk about this with my clients, too, a little bit. You can’t tie your self-worth to the number on the scale, for example. You can’t tie your self-worth to the number of followers you have on any given day. What matters more than the number is, are the people who are following you engaged? Are they hanging on your every word? I definitely have what I consider the super-fans who will, literally, anything I put out, they will buy. Any post I post, they comment on. And these are people who could eventually become clients, or some of them are actually former clients who just continue to hang on every word I say because they want to continue to have that guidance.
Libby Rothschild (13:35):
Yeah. And then for the listeners out there, it’s possible to get those super-fans. The next question I’m going to ask is going to help you explain how you’re able to build that because I think we all want the super-fans, right? We want to get to that point where we have those people who know, like, love, and trust us, and really that helps build your credibility. When implementing a strategic methodology with posting on social media, can you talk about your process and outcome as to how do you get these super-fans, right?
Melissa Groves Azzaro (14:05):
Yeah, my messages were already on point, if not a little bit disorganized. They definitely weren’t as structured into, like, “Okay. Today I’m posting this bucket. Tomorrow I’m posting that bucket.” But they weren’t getting seen by anybody. I have to say I really, really… And you’re going to love this. I really dragged my feet about changing my handle because it was Avocado Grove Nutrition, which is the name of my business, and avocados are my favorite food, and Groves was my last name, so it had a personal meaning.
Melissa Groves Azzaro (14:43):
It’s really funny because having worked in advertising, I have no ego about my writing whatsoever because, in advertising, you spend hours writing something and the client’s like, “I don’t like it. Change it.” You just have to learn, again, your self-worth isn’t wrapped up in what you do. It’s all about what the client wants.
Melissa Groves Azzaro (15:10):
I don’t really know why I thought this was any different than that was, but you have to swallow your pride and be like, “Nobody knows who the F Melissa Groves is. Nobody knows what Avocado Grove Nutrition is. Nobody is searching for those things.” So once I bit the bullet and I changed my name to the Hormone Dietitian, it was like an explosion because, basically, anytime I engage on someone’s post and leave a comment, or my profile pops up as Suggested People to Follow, they know exactly what I do by looking at my name.
Melissa Groves Azzaro (15:52):
The outcome… I was at 2,000 followers and by January 2020, I was at 24,000. Now growth averages about 500 to 600 a week without me really doing anything. I’m definitely posting a lot more than I was in that intense growth period, and I’m currently at 28.3 thousand. The bigger outcome is that 92 to 95% of my clients find me on Instagram.
Libby Rothschild (16:24):
That’s amazing.
Melissa Groves Azzaro (16:25):
I survey. I keep track of those things and, yeah, that’s where they find me, which is crazy. I know the last few weeks have been really difficult. I think engagement maybe will start to bounce back once there’s more of a sense of normalcy and the new normal settles in because the bottom line is PCOS and fertility struggles aren’t stopping for a pandemic. This is actually really the ideal time to work on some of the nutrition and lifestyle stuff because most people have more time now.
Melissa Groves Azzaro (17:03):
I do also want to mention that one major investment I made which was actually inspired by you, and I remember telling you at FNCE last year when I saw you, was I found and hired a local brand photographer so that every month I get a shoot. I get a set of edited digital photos to use however I want, and that’s really saved me a lot of time. I try to plan out my strategy a month in advance about what I want to talk about that month. Like, for example, in December I did “Estrogen De-Tox December,” so I spent a lot of time photographing things that lined up with that. So that’s [crosstalk 00:17:46].
Libby Rothschild (17:45):
And they look amazing. Your photos look fantastic and I love… I’m so happy that you got a local friend photographer and whether you’re listening and if you’re not ready to do quarterly, I think at least once a year just have some updated… We all need a headshot, right? It’s so much fun, and it’s a great way to sprinkle that into your appointment. Thank you for sharing that because I love when dietitians do that.
Melissa Groves Azzaro (18:10):
Yeah, she’s actually amazing and I think that’s one of the benefits of not living in a big city anymore. The price, for me, was a no-brainer and it forced me to uplevel and continually get more photographs because now I have it on my calendar every month.
Libby Rothschild (18:29):
Yeah. And yet that’s taking it seriously, right? It’s part of your content strategy, you know how to use it, you let the audience build the know, like, and trust. I love it.
Libby Rothschild (18:38):
I wanted to ask you when you decided to use social media as a business tool, and an example is what you just said, you getting that brand photography. Can you explain the differences in your mindset and just the engagement when you… You did mention that you switched your handle and you mentioned that you get most of your clients. Is there anything else that you wanted to add to that?
Melissa Groves Azzaro (19:01):
Yeah. My practice is about 99% virtual, so in my case, social media really is the best way to reach those potential clients, because they are searching the hashtags. I find that with virtual practice, those typical old-school marketing strategies that for local private practices don’t work very well for me. I have a HealthProfs account, but I get maybe two calls a month from that, and they’re never ideal clients.
Melissa Groves Azzaro (19:37):
In the beginning, I did spread the flyers and the business cards around town. And again, I never really got anyone appropriate. By the fact that I control that I put out on social media, I’m attracting the type of people I want to work with.
Melissa Groves Azzaro (19:58):
I started my Facebook and my Instagram at the same time and it’s ridiculous the difference. 28,000 on Instagram compared to, I think I’m at 850 on Facebook. It’s just really slow-going. You really do have to pay to play on Facebook. I really didn’t realize there would be so many people on Instagram searching for health information, but they are and they’re really a strong community. The fertility community especially. They send each other presents, and they have virtual happy hours, and it’s pretty amazing the community that you’re able to build on [inaudible 00:20:48].
Libby Rothschild (20:47):
Absolutely amazing. And I love that you have been able to track where you get your clients from, use this as a business tool, uplevel your strategy, and then role-model for other dietitians. I think it’s incredible what you’ve been able to do. Yeah, the strategy for Facebook and Instagram is different, even though they’re technically owned by the same person. It’s definitely a different strategy.
Melissa Groves Azzaro (21:11):
Yeah. I will say something that’s been moderately successful for me is Facebook Groups. I think if you’re going to be on Facebook, that is really where the sales happen inside the groups because it is easier to build that know, like and trust factor inside a group.
Libby Rothschild (21:31):
And when you say groups, if they’re owned by somebody else, how do you manage that?
Melissa Groves Azzaro (21:36):
They’re owned by me so I have-
Libby Rothschild (21:38):
Oh, okay.
Melissa Groves Azzaro (21:39):
Yeah, I have a free PCOS group, a free infertility group, and I have a new group that is only for members and alumni of my courses.
Libby Rothschild (21:52):
So for the listeners, that’s a free group and a paid group. The paid group is only for people who are clients and the free is part of you building the know, like, and trust. I’m guessing you’re trying to sell them from the free group into the paid group. Do you have a strategy for that? And you are converting, is that correct?
Melissa Groves Azzaro (22:10):
Yeah, that’s one of the funnels that gets them into my course or into working with me one-on-one.
Libby Rothschild (22:16):
Do you send them from Instagram to free Facebook or are they just separate? How does that strategy work?
Melissa Groves Azzaro (22:21):
I do. In my marketing strategy, I set up in Asana as recurring tasks, what I want to promote on certain days, so then I’m not over-promoting something and I’m like, “Did I promote an affiliate this day or when was the last time I did this?” I set it up as recurring tasks in Asana, so every ten days I will post about the free Facebook group, just a little reminder like, “Hey, did you guys know I have a free group?”
Libby Rothschild (22:51):
Yeah, fantastic. So you’re organized, you have a strategy, you have accountability and you’re using technology to keep you on track with making sure you’re driving sales.
Melissa Groves Azzaro (23:00):
Oh, my god. I live and die by my Asana.
Libby Rothschild (23:04):
Yeah, that’s fantastic. Me, too. Yeah, I love that. And for listeners, there’s so many other tools that you can use. The concept is making sure you’re tracking it, and you have a plan and a strategy, and the outcome is being measured, which you are. You’re saying 90-something percent coming from Instagram and that’s what I want the listeners to do, too. Know where your clients are coming from. If you don’t get clients, then you start there.
Melissa Groves Azzaro (23:31):
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.
Libby Rothschild (23:32):
Fantastic. You already talked to us about it, but is there anything more you want to add about how you use Instagram to market? You talked about marketing, but what about to sell?
Melissa Groves Azzaro (23:45):
Yeah, that’s really interesting. I definitely feel like feed posts are what grow your followers because they’re searching those hashtags, but the selling happens in Stories because they are responding to the story. I use the Story in much the same way you do, as a casual, off-the-cuff, they see what’s up behind the scenes, what I’m making for dinner, that kind of stuff. I do post pictures of my cats, which you know I have [crosstalk 00:24:20].
Libby Rothschild (24:20):
Uh-huh (affirmative). Right?
Melissa Groves Azzaro (24:21):
Cat fans who know the cats’ names and stuff. They’ll message me in response to a Story, and in, it’s been a little while since I’ve done this, but in the beginning, if they were an appropriate fit, I would send them the link to book a discovery call with me. I have had a waitlist so I now will send them the waitlist link to apply if they’re appropriate.
Melissa Groves Azzaro (24:53):
I do have to say one thing that took a lot of pressure off of me was that overwhelming number of messages that I get, DMs that I get every single day, and it took the guilt off of me. It’s like, “I can’t save everyone. I can’t respond to everyone. I’m only replying to ideal potential clients, and I’m only doing it two days a week.”
Libby Rothschild (25:20):
That’s great.
Melissa Groves Azzaro (25:22):
It’s hard because our brains are so trained that when we see that notification pop up to do something or get anxiety about it, so I’ve trained myself to ignore the little [inaudible 00:25:38].
Libby Rothschild (25:37):
Yeah. It’s really-
Melissa Groves Azzaro (25:37):
I just go through on my terms when I have time.
Libby Rothschild (25:41):
Yeah, and it’s really full circle, right? Because we mentioned at the beginning of this interview that you are creating content for your ideal client, and then you are also responding and engaging only with your ideal client, and it is difficult on so many levels.
Libby Rothschild (25:55):
At first, it’s difficult to talk to one person. Then it’s difficult to hear people complain that you’re not talking to other people, and then you have to process what is the best use of your time as a business owner to give the best service and value to your audience, and sometimes at your level, that means you don’t respond to all of the messages if they’re not related to who you’re helping.
Libby Rothschild (26:15):
I like going down that tiered approach and I think that for the listeners who haven’t experienced that yet, knowing that that can come is a sign of success. I really appreciate you sharing how you’ve been able to handle that.
Melissa Groves Azzaro (26:27):
I would love to be able to shoot the poop about hormones in my DMs all day, but that does not pay the bills. I really have to limit the amount of interaction to the ones who are going to be appropriate clients right away.
Libby Rothschild (26:48):
That is part of your sales strategy, right?
Melissa Groves Azzaro (26:50):
It is, yeah.
Libby Rothschild (26:51):
Yep, I love that. Thank you for sharing that. Couple last questions to wrap up here. What has been the biggest challenge and surprisingly easier than expected with regard to your offer?
Melissa Groves Azzaro (27:04):
Yeah, the biggest challenge actually hasn’t been around sales or marketing for me because that was my background. The biggest challenge has been a logistics thing with my one-on-one practice right now. I had set my packages up to include certain lab tests and one of those lab test companies just basically imploded and no longer offers those labs, so I’m still a little bit dealing with that.
Melissa Groves Azzaro (27:34):
Other than that, the biggest challenge is the same that it is for most people, which is time. Basically, since October, the way my husband describes it, is that I’ve been working three full-time jobs between developing the cookbook, launching the course, and then my client load.
Melissa Groves Azzaro (27:51):
On the other hand, what’s been easier than expected, I think I was letting my money mindset affect my pricing strategy early on so every time I raise my prices, I have that thought that no one will ever possibly pay this, but they’re still buying. It’s Business 101 with supply and demand. There’s only so much supply, which is me, so the prices keep going up, but the demand is enormous. Right now, I actually have 190 on my waitlist.
Libby Rothschild (28:30):
That’s amazing. Congratulations.
Melissa Groves Azzaro (28:32):
It’s crazy. It’s crazy. That was in the beginning when I would sweat a $20 increase or a $50 increase. It’s not even in that ballpark anymore.
Libby Rothschild (28:47):
I think that’s really inspiring for the listeners to think, and again, full circle. You built this waitlist 90-something percent from Instagram. It’s possible for the listeners and you’ve done it and I love that you can look back and say I used to sweat pricing increase tied to your mindset, which we all have. We’ve all struggled with that. Now you’re able to look back and see how far you’ve come and celebrating that win in this interview is really, really helpful for everybody listening.
Melissa Groves Azzaro (29:14):
Good. Good, good.
Libby Rothschild (29:15):
Really nice. What do you wish you would have known when you were starting out?
Melissa Groves Azzaro (29:20):
I actually wrote an article. If you go to my site AvocadoGroveNutrition.com and you click the RDs under the blog, I did write a post about Tips and Tricks for Starting a Practice because I do get so, so many. In addition to customers, I get so many questions from other RDs about how I started my business, that sort of thing. I’ve just invested the time to do it all at once, spell it all out so I’ve got all the things I use in there.
Melissa Groves Azzaro (29:55):
I think, probably, the biggest takeaway from that is don’t be afraid to invest money to make money. I see so many dietitians in Facebook groups worried about spending the money for a proper EHR or things like that. You don’t want to cobble together something that looks unprofessional. Spend the money. They will come. Same thing with the development of my course. I’ve always approached it from that mindset as what am I going to need later? Signing up with ConvertKit right away instead of trying to make do with the free Mailchimp because you know what? Then a year later when I was crazy busy, I didn’t have to take the time to move everything over because I already had it.
Libby Rothschild (30:46):
I totally, totally agree with that, by the way. I have a bone to pick with Mailchimp.
Melissa Groves Azzaro (30:50):
Yeah, I [inaudible 00:30:54] Mailchimp. It’s not intuitive. I find ConvertKit to be for someone with a writing background, it’s like I can, literally, just write it in there and it works fine. It’s very visual the way the funnels are set up, as well, so it’s super-easy for me to use. And it grows with you. It starts at a relative $29 a month. In the first three months of my business, I made zero money, but it made up for it later.
Libby Rothschild (31:30):
Absolutely.
Melissa Groves Azzaro (31:31):
Everything’s done and in there.
Libby Rothschild (31:33):
Yeah, I’ve had clients that have had to go back multiple times with their Mailchimp, and manually take the people over to ConvertKit. It doesn’t have to be ConvertKit. You can use any other email service provider, but that’s happened multiple times and I’m like, “Well, you know, you could have just went with ConvertKit in the first place.” I’m with you on that. I luckily did ConvertKit from the beginning.
Melissa Groves Azzaro (31:58):
Yeah, I would also say, in the beginning when you’re first starting out, focus in on collaboration with other people in your niche. I’m definitely a big fan of that. I’ve made some really valuable, not just from a business perspective, but really good relationship connections with other dietitians in my niche just simply because of the content I put out, and then we start chatting. Then every time I go to FNCE it’s like a big hug party.
Melissa Groves Azzaro (32:29):
But the more you can share what other people are doing, if you think it’s appropriate for your audience, if you can help someone out who has fewer followers than you do. I always try to boost other dietitians’ work because when you think about all the other people out there promoting nutrition and health-content, I’d rather my audience see what other dietitians are putting out because I know that’s good content and it’s scientifically sound. That’s the kind of stuff I want to expose them to, and it also gives me stuff to share in my Stories, so just to keep your Stories going all day but one of the other things I most commonly share in Stories is other dietitians’ posts.
Libby Rothschild (33:21):
Yeah. And I love the whole concept. Obviously, I’m a big fan of women helping women, dietitians helping dietitians, and I think it’s a really nice way for us to empower each other and then for us to break through some of the archaic-like belief systems in our field, and some of the messaging that we’ve been told that we, for example, can’t make money right away or all those types of things. It only helps us if we can help each other.
Melissa Groves Azzaro (33:44):
Right. Clearly, I have a wait list of 190. There’s enough work to go around. If someone wants to work with me sooner and I’m like, “Listen. It’s probably going to take four to six months.” I will refer them to a colleague if they have an opening and I know they have an opening.
Libby Rothschild (34:05):
That’s another benefit of that collaboration mindset, because at the end of the day we’re helping our clients, right?
Melissa Groves Azzaro (34:13):
It’s funny, I also see a lot of dietitians who are down about the fact that so many of their followers are other dietitians, as opposed to ideal clients. I definitely do have a very large dietitian following, but I have to say, dietitians are your best referers. They refer their sisters and their friends. I’ve had a surprising number of dietitian clients because, if you specialize in renal or clinical, you don’t know anything about fertility nutrition. Or you’ve just been diagnosed with PCOS.
Melissa Groves Azzaro (34:50):
I would go to a renal dietitian if I needed help there, or an oncology dietitian if I needed help with that, so I think knowing what other people’s niches are helps you to, when you do get those non-appropriate clients in your DMs, you can say, “Hey, my friend so-and-so does that. I highly recommend her,” which I do that kind of stuff all the time.
Libby Rothschild (35:18):
I love that. I love your abundance mindset, which has been a theme throughout this entire episode. I really like that reframe because I do hear that quite often in complaints, “Oh, I only have dietitians,” and again, an example of reframing that would say it’s going from I only have dietitians to saying I am supportive and happy and fortunate to have these followers. How can I build relationships, and then how can I ultimately serve my clients better?” You have shown how you’re able to do that with dietitian followers who, some might even be ideal clients, but not assuming that they would be, but building that relationship has helped you serve your bottom line, so wonderful story-tell-
Melissa Groves Azzaro (35:53):
Absolutely.
Libby Rothschild (35:53):
Yep. Love that. And then if you could just end us off today with letting us know what’s next in your business.
Melissa Groves Azzaro (36:00):
Yeah, I’m actually really excited. I was planning on relaunching my PCOS course in April, but I’ve been taking the temperature of what’s going on. I do think now that people are starting to accept the situation is what it is, they’ll be able to start thinking about like, “Oh, what am I going to do to entertain myself?” So I do think using some sensitive marketing would still be an okay time to launch the course.
Melissa Groves Azzaro (36:33):
In the fall, I’ll do a relaunch with all the bells and whistles. I tried to just get it out there as quickly as possible for January and continue to build out my PCOS offers so the low, medium, high. Then I want to move on and start building up my fertility offers and other hormone condition offers. I feel very fortunate that I was already set up to be 100% virtual before any of the shutdowns happened. I’ve been continually surveying my audience right now to see what they want from me at this time. They say they want normal stuff, but they’re not engaging with normal stuff. We’ll see what happens.
Melissa Groves Azzaro (37:20):
And then I’m about to open my wait list, which I’ve had in place while I was completing the book. Then from a personal and business growth perspective, my goals this year are really to focus on SEO. That’s the next thing for me. I got this gorgeous, beautiful website, so now that I have that, I’m going to start working on SEO. I also want to get a better handle on Facebook ads.
Melissa Groves Azzaro (37:49):
I take courses and hire coaches based on what my specific need is at the time, so those, I think, are my next two biggest needs to really get under control, because now my practice is on auto-pilot. My Instagram’s in a good place. I’ve got a book coming out in August. It’s PCOS Meal Prep Cookbook with a publisher, so that’s really exciting. They found me on Instagram, as well.
Libby Rothschild (38:20):
Amazing. Amazing.
Melissa Groves Azzaro (38:20):
I know. And then I also-
Libby Rothschild (38:23):
Congratulations.
Melissa Groves Azzaro (38:24):
Thank you. And I also was just elected chair-elect of the dietitians in the Integrative Functional Medicine Group, so I’m really excited to get started with that and transition out of the social media chair role for that. I post their social media in 19,000 followers on Facebook. We do three posts a day on Facebook. I do Instagram. I do Twitter for them, and I have for the last two years, so I’m a little excited about changing my role in that group.
Libby Rothschild (38:57):
Absolutely. And we’ll all make sure to be able to support and watch you grow, so.
Melissa Groves Azzaro (39:03):
That is actually something else that I would add to when dietitians are first starting out, get involved, especially if you’re young. Boards are desperate for young people with fresh ideas.
Melissa Groves Azzaro (39:19):
I got involved with my State Board pretty early on, and then a different opportunity came up and I was like, “Sure. Why not?” But the connections you make are invaluable. You get to travel to the conferences and interact with people who are inspirational. The [inaudible 00:39:39] board, they blow me away with their… They’re all really brilliant and smart marketers, too. Inspiring, but yeah, get involved because the networking… You never know what’s going to lead to what’s down the road.
Libby Rothschild (39:54):
Fantastic. Thank you so much for your time today. It’s been a pleasure.
Melissa Groves Azzaro (39:58):
Thank you for having me. I really enjoyed this.
Libby Rothschild (40:01):
If you identify as a female dietitian or student, apply to my coaching program. I’m accepting applications now. My clients go from zero to exceeding their sales goals. I save you time, energy, and I show you how to confidently become a dietitian boss. Thousands of your colleagues from around the world are doing it and so can you. Apply on my website libbyrothschild.com. Check the show notes if you want that link right away.
I’m Libby Rothschild, former clinical dietitian who transformed into a full-time virtual business owner. It was only one year ago when I made $55,000 a year in my clinical job, and now I make $100,000 a month being my own boss, and you can do this, too. My clients, who are all female dietitians and students, started from zero and created six-figure, multi-six figure businesses by following my proven method. They’ve all been guests on air. My proven method shows you how to attract cash-paying clients using social media marketing strategies that work. You don’t have to guess, waste time, or hold yourself back when you follow my step-by-step method.
Libby Rothschild (00:43):
Melissa Groves Azzaro, RDN, LD, is an integrative registered dietitian and owner of Avocado Grove Nutrition & Wellness, an in-person and virtual private practice specializing in women’s health and hormone issues, including PCOS and fertility. Melissa uses the Functional Medicine, “foods first” approach that combines holistic lifestyle changes with evidence-based medicine.
Libby Rothschild (01:05):
Melissa is a second career dietitian, having worked as a copywriter and editor in New York City advertising for 15 years before going back to school for nutrition. Melissa was awarded the Emerging Women’s Health dietitian in 2019 by the Women’s Health DPG, and an UPWARD award from Food Minds in 2019. She has a cookbook, A Balanced Approach to PCOS, coming out in August of this year, which is available for pre-order on Amazon. Additionally, her course, PCOS Root Cause Roadmap, will be re-launching for a second time this spring. She has served on DIFN Leadership Team, Social Media Chair, since 2018, and is the upcoming Chair-elect. She also serves on the New Hampshire State Board as a Professional Development Chair. If you could share your social media handles with us?
Melissa Groves Azzaro (01:53):
Yeah, my website is avocadogrovenutrition.com. I’ve not yet changed that over because it’s a mean switch. It’s so difficult. Everywhere else I’m the Hormone dietitian, so on Instagram, I’m the.hormonedietitian. On Facebook, it’s the same. And on Twitter I’m @thehormonerd.
Libby Rothschild (02:17):
Fantastic. And I have to ask since you gave multiple social feeds, which one is your favorite and why?
Melissa Groves Azzaro (02:23):
Absolutely Instagram. When I started all my social accounts at the same time, it was just so much easier to grow and develop that community on Instagram versus the others. I literally hate Twitter. I hate Twitter. It’s full of mean people. I feel like I’m a little old to start TikTok, but maybe I’ll hire an intern to do that for me.
Libby Rothschild (02:54):
Cool. Yeah, it’s definitely fun. I’m biased but I’m obsessed with Instagram, and I love your work on Instagram, so I was just curious which one is your favorite, but we’ll get into that, I’m sure.
Melissa Groves Azzaro (03:06):
Yeah, thank you.
Libby Rothschild (03:07):
If you could start off, Melissa, and talk about your nutrition philosophy for those who aren’t following you or don’t know who you are, I want to make sure that they’re clear with your standpoint.
Melissa Groves Azzaro (03:17):
I use a Functional Medicine Root Cause approach using food as medicine to address hormonal imbalances, such as PCOS and fertility issues, and I do that without eliminating any foods. So it’s really what can we add to your diet to make it better is really my philosophy.
Libby Rothschild (03:40):
Fantastic. And how did you get into that niche and specialty?
Melissa Groves Azzaro (03:45):
It’s funny, one of my first jobs as an RD was working for a local Functional Medicine RD who specialized in gut health, so I would see all of the weight-loss clients. And when you’re working from a Functional Medicine perspective, I would look at these clients and look at what they were eating, how much they were exercising, and it was like, “I don’t understand why you’re not losing weight, like calories in, calories out. It’s not adding up.” When we would start to do the digging and we would get lab tests back on them, I would see that there was almost always a hormonal issue, either they had high insulin or high cortisol or low thyroid, or they had a condition like PCOS, which I thought was really interesting.
Melissa Groves Azzaro (04:32):
So when I left that practice and opened my own, I knew I wanted to specialize in women’s health, and in particular, I felt like women with PCOS had been given a bum rap by conventional medicine, and there was a lot of room to help those women above and beyond what they were getting.
Libby Rothschild (04:54):
Yeah, thank you for sharing that story. I love that you took that personal experience and noticed some patterns and were able to really lean into that, right? Empower women through, obviously, what you do now with your business and your amazing marketing message. Are you comfortable sharing with the audience about your goals and how much money you make?
Melissa Groves Azzaro (05:15):
A little bit. I can say I started my business in January 2018, and I remember reading in Facebook groups, “Oh, don’t expect to be profitable in the nutrition business for at least three years.” And I remember reading that quote that’s, “In year one, they sleep. In year two, they creep. And in year three they leap.” And I was like, “Three years is a really, really long time to go making my money.”
Melissa Groves Azzaro (05:49):
I was working another job when I started my practice. I had a really, really fun job as a retail dietitian at a local grocery store chain, so I was in there doing food demos, and it was just twice a week, so it was really the perfect stability to allow me to grow my practice on the side. I actually ended up leaving that position much sooner than I anticipated because my practice picked up so quickly.
Melissa Groves Azzaro (06:18):
So, yeah, within six months I was profitable. I had a pretty decent first year, and then 2019 which was my full second year in practice was a six-figure a year, and I’m on track to do better than that this year, as well.
Libby Rothschild (06:35):
Congratulations.
Melissa Groves Azzaro (06:36):
And this year I’ve added, in addition to one-on-one clients, I’ve also added courses so definitely on track.
Libby Rothschild (06:44):
Thank you for sharing that with the audience. I really like that reframe of how you were told it’ll take three years, and you said, “Nope. Six months.” I think that sends such a great message to dietitians who feel that it might take five or ten years and it discourages them from getting started and taking it seriously.
Melissa Groves Azzaro (07:03):
Yeah, I would like to say, coming from a place where I worked in advertising where a six-figure salary in New York City, basically means you can pay for rent and food maybe. But by the end, I was a vice-president. I was making decent money, so my goal was to make as much in my nutrition practice as I did in advertising. Last year I missed that mark by $6,000 in my second year.
Libby Rothschild (07:31):
That’s fantastic. It mostly gives you an edge, though, to say that you want to match that, because I do feel like a lot of dietitians listening, at least in my experience, is that they’re not clear with revenue goals, and if you’re not clear with what you want to make and what you want to match, it’s harder to actually get there, so I hope for the listeners this is inspiring for you to set revenue goals and realize that you can do it sooner, and when you have clarity it inspires you to go on that track.
Melissa Groves Azzaro (07:57):
Absolutely.
Libby Rothschild (07:58):
Yeah, excellent. Okay. You did talk about why you chose to go into the hormone space, and PCOS, and you had experiences with women and you identified issues. Can you talk about what allowed you to get more clear with your ideal client, and how that changed any of your marketing?
Melissa Groves Azzaro (08:21):
I had already done a little work on identifying my ideal customer avatar, my ICA based on past clients that I enjoyed working with the most and that made me really refine that, so I have a very, very clear picture of who the person that I’m talking to is, and I talk only to that person.
Melissa Groves Azzaro (08:51):
It’s funny, I’ll occasionally get messages from women not in my exact niche asking for more content on PCOS and menopause, or… I got one where someone was telling me I shouldn’t use the term “women with PCOS” because it doesn’t address the trans-men who also have PCOS. I’m like, “Okay. I get it. I totally get it.” However, I’m speaking to 32-year-old Kayla who lives in New York City and has a job much like the job that I used to have, so she doesn’t have time to meal prep. She travels all the time for work. She doesn’t really cook. She’s starting to think about her fertility, but she’s not actively trying to get pregnant so I really interviewed a lot of potential ICAs about their lifestyle and, basically, where they shop, what they read, what they listen to, what they wear. I really know this woman, for sure.
Libby Rothschild (09:58):
That’s fantastic. And how has you getting clear with this woman paid off in your ability to build your business?
Melissa Groves Azzaro (10:07):
Yeah, the first thing I did pretty early on was develop those message buckets of the types of posts that I post, and they address particular needs in her life. As opposed to in the beginning when I was posting pretty food pictures and things that I thought they needed to learn or wanted to know, where now I really know what they want to know.
Libby Rothschild (10:39):
Absolutely. So you’re clear with the ideal client. You know what kind of content to make for her. And then your mindset is able to understand when your audience says things like, “I want you to create content for something different,” but then respect that you’re creating content for one person, and when you double-down on that, you’re able to serve and deliver better for that person and realize you’re not talking to everybody, which is a lesson that’s so hard for all of us to learn.
Melissa Groves Azzaro (11:03):
Honestly, every time I get an email back from… I have my nurture sequence and every time I get an email back saying, “It’s like you’re in my brain,” I’m like, “I know I’m doing exactly the right thing.”
Libby Rothschild (11:18):
That’s fantastic and so does that help your mindset when you have hard days when you have to say, “You know what, I’m on track. I know that there’s always going to be that 10 or 15% that rattles you.”
Melissa Groves Azzaro (11:32):
I know it’s because I’m a little bit older, as well, but I’m definitely at that point in my life where I don’t really care what other people think. If I’m not for you, goodbye. Unfollow. Nice to meet you, go on your way. I really don’t let that stuff affect me at all, and I know so many dietitians get caught up in that number like, “Oh, my god, 130 people unfollowed me today.” In my mind, that means you’re doing something right because you’re making them… What’s the word when they self-eliminate as an ideal client? It’s like they’re taking themselves out of the pool for you. You don’t have to worry about it when people unfollow or unsubscribe.” [crosstalk 00:12:19] I don’t have to pay for you on my email list.
Libby Rothschild (12:21):
Right. You have a really good positive mindset about that. You’re, obviously, great at reframing, which is… You’re successful and successful people have a positive mindset. What tips do you have since you mentioned a lot of dietitians do struggle with this? A lot of my listeners are not able to do that yet, so do you have any advice for them?
Melissa Groves Azzaro (12:43):
Yeah, you really can’t, and I talk about this with my clients, too, a little bit. You can’t tie your self-worth to the number on the scale, for example. You can’t tie your self-worth to the number of followers you have on any given day. What matters more than the number is, are the people who are following you engaged? Are they hanging on your every word? I definitely have what I consider the super-fans who will, literally, anything I put out, they will buy. Any post I post, they comment on. And these are people who could eventually become clients, or some of them are actually former clients who just continue to hang on every word I say because they want to continue to have that guidance.
Libby Rothschild (13:35):
Yeah. And then for the listeners out there, it’s possible to get those super-fans. The next question I’m going to ask is going to help you explain how you’re able to build that because I think we all want the super-fans, right? We want to get to that point where we have those people who know, like, love, and trust us, and really that helps build your credibility. When implementing a strategic methodology with posting on social media, can you talk about your process and outcome as to how do you get these super-fans, right?
Melissa Groves Azzaro (14:05):
Yeah, my messages were already on point, if not a little bit disorganized. They definitely weren’t as structured into, like, “Okay. Today I’m posting this bucket. Tomorrow I’m posting that bucket.” But they weren’t getting seen by anybody. I have to say I really, really… And you’re going to love this. I really dragged my feet about changing my handle because it was Avocado Grove Nutrition, which is the name of my business, and avocados are my favorite food, and Groves was my last name, so it had a personal meaning.
Melissa Groves Azzaro (14:43):
It’s really funny because having worked in advertising, I have no ego about my writing whatsoever because, in advertising, you spend hours writing something and the client’s like, “I don’t like it. Change it.” You just have to learn, again, your self-worth isn’t wrapped up in what you do. It’s all about what the client wants.
Melissa Groves Azzaro (15:10):
I don’t really know why I thought this was any different than that was, but you have to swallow your pride and be like, “Nobody knows who the F Melissa Groves is. Nobody knows what Avocado Grove Nutrition is. Nobody is searching for those things.” So once I bit the bullet and I changed my name to the Hormone Dietitian, it was like an explosion because, basically, anytime I engage on someone’s post and leave a comment, or my profile pops up as Suggested People to Follow, they know exactly what I do by looking at my name.
Melissa Groves Azzaro (15:52):
The outcome… I was at 2,000 followers and by January 2020, I was at 24,000. Now growth averages about 500 to 600 a week without me really doing anything. I’m definitely posting a lot more than I was in that intense growth period, and I’m currently at 28.3 thousand. The bigger outcome is that 92 to 95% of my clients find me on Instagram.
Libby Rothschild (16:24):
That’s amazing.
Melissa Groves Azzaro (16:25):
I survey. I keep track of those things and, yeah, that’s where they find me, which is crazy. I know the last few weeks have been really difficult. I think engagement maybe will start to bounce back once there’s more of a sense of normalcy and the new normal settles in because the bottom line is PCOS and fertility struggles aren’t stopping for a pandemic. This is actually really the ideal time to work on some of the nutrition and lifestyle stuff because most people have more time now.
Melissa Groves Azzaro (17:03):
I do also want to mention that one major investment I made which was actually inspired by you, and I remember telling you at FNCE last year when I saw you, was I found and hired a local brand photographer so that every month I get a shoot. I get a set of edited digital photos to use however I want, and that’s really saved me a lot of time. I try to plan out my strategy a month in advance about what I want to talk about that month. Like, for example, in December I did “Estrogen De-Tox December,” so I spent a lot of time photographing things that lined up with that. So that’s [crosstalk 00:17:46].
Libby Rothschild (17:45):
And they look amazing. Your photos look fantastic and I love… I’m so happy that you got a local friend photographer and whether you’re listening and if you’re not ready to do quarterly, I think at least once a year just have some updated… We all need a headshot, right? It’s so much fun, and it’s a great way to sprinkle that into your appointment. Thank you for sharing that because I love when dietitians do that.
Melissa Groves Azzaro (18:10):
Yeah, she’s actually amazing and I think that’s one of the benefits of not living in a big city anymore. The price, for me, was a no-brainer and it forced me to uplevel and continually get more photographs because now I have it on my calendar every month.
Libby Rothschild (18:29):
Yeah. And yet that’s taking it seriously, right? It’s part of your content strategy, you know how to use it, you let the audience build the know, like, and trust. I love it.
Libby Rothschild (18:38):
I wanted to ask you when you decided to use social media as a business tool, and an example is what you just said, you getting that brand photography. Can you explain the differences in your mindset and just the engagement when you… You did mention that you switched your handle and you mentioned that you get most of your clients. Is there anything else that you wanted to add to that?
Melissa Groves Azzaro (19:01):
Yeah. My practice is about 99% virtual, so in my case, social media really is the best way to reach those potential clients, because they are searching the hashtags. I find that with virtual practice, those typical old-school marketing strategies that for local private practices don’t work very well for me. I have a HealthProfs account, but I get maybe two calls a month from that, and they’re never ideal clients.
Melissa Groves Azzaro (19:37):
In the beginning, I did spread the flyers and the business cards around town. And again, I never really got anyone appropriate. By the fact that I control that I put out on social media, I’m attracting the type of people I want to work with.
Melissa Groves Azzaro (19:58):
I started my Facebook and my Instagram at the same time and it’s ridiculous the difference. 28,000 on Instagram compared to, I think I’m at 850 on Facebook. It’s just really slow-going. You really do have to pay to play on Facebook. I really didn’t realize there would be so many people on Instagram searching for health information, but they are and they’re really a strong community. The fertility community especially. They send each other presents, and they have virtual happy hours, and it’s pretty amazing the community that you’re able to build on [inaudible 00:20:48].
Libby Rothschild (20:47):
Absolutely amazing. And I love that you have been able to track where you get your clients from, use this as a business tool, uplevel your strategy, and then role-model for other dietitians. I think it’s incredible what you’ve been able to do. Yeah, the strategy for Facebook and Instagram is different, even though they’re technically owned by the same person. It’s definitely a different strategy.
Melissa Groves Azzaro (21:11):
Yeah. I will say something that’s been moderately successful for me is Facebook Groups. I think if you’re going to be on Facebook, that is really where the sales happen inside the groups because it is easier to build that know, like and trust factor inside a group.
Libby Rothschild (21:31):
And when you say groups, if they’re owned by somebody else, how do you manage that?
Melissa Groves Azzaro (21:36):
They’re owned by me so I have-
Libby Rothschild (21:38):
Oh, okay.
Melissa Groves Azzaro (21:39):
Yeah, I have a free PCOS group, a free infertility group, and I have a new group that is only for members and alumni of my courses.
Libby Rothschild (21:52):
So for the listeners, that’s a free group and a paid group. The paid group is only for people who are clients and the free is part of you building the know, like, and trust. I’m guessing you’re trying to sell them from the free group into the paid group. Do you have a strategy for that? And you are converting, is that correct?
Melissa Groves Azzaro (22:10):
Yeah, that’s one of the funnels that gets them into my course or into working with me one-on-one.
Libby Rothschild (22:16):
Do you send them from Instagram to free Facebook or are they just separate? How does that strategy work?
Melissa Groves Azzaro (22:21):
I do. In my marketing strategy, I set up in Asana as recurring tasks, what I want to promote on certain days, so then I’m not over-promoting something and I’m like, “Did I promote an affiliate this day or when was the last time I did this?” I set it up as recurring tasks in Asana, so every ten days I will post about the free Facebook group, just a little reminder like, “Hey, did you guys know I have a free group?”
Libby Rothschild (22:51):
Yeah, fantastic. So you’re organized, you have a strategy, you have accountability and you’re using technology to keep you on track with making sure you’re driving sales.
Melissa Groves Azzaro (23:00):
Oh, my god. I live and die by my Asana.
Libby Rothschild (23:04):
Yeah, that’s fantastic. Me, too. Yeah, I love that. And for listeners, there’s so many other tools that you can use. The concept is making sure you’re tracking it, and you have a plan and a strategy, and the outcome is being measured, which you are. You’re saying 90-something percent coming from Instagram and that’s what I want the listeners to do, too. Know where your clients are coming from. If you don’t get clients, then you start there.
Melissa Groves Azzaro (23:31):
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.
Libby Rothschild (23:32):
Fantastic. You already talked to us about it, but is there anything more you want to add about how you use Instagram to market? You talked about marketing, but what about to sell?
Melissa Groves Azzaro (23:45):
Yeah, that’s really interesting. I definitely feel like feed posts are what grow your followers because they’re searching those hashtags, but the selling happens in Stories because they are responding to the story. I use the Story in much the same way you do, as a casual, off-the-cuff, they see what’s up behind the scenes, what I’m making for dinner, that kind of stuff. I do post pictures of my cats, which you know I have [crosstalk 00:24:20].
Libby Rothschild (24:20):
Uh-huh (affirmative). Right?
Melissa Groves Azzaro (24:21):
Cat fans who know the cats’ names and stuff. They’ll message me in response to a Story, and in, it’s been a little while since I’ve done this, but in the beginning, if they were an appropriate fit, I would send them the link to book a discovery call with me. I have had a waitlist so I now will send them the waitlist link to apply if they’re appropriate.
Melissa Groves Azzaro (24:53):
I do have to say one thing that took a lot of pressure off of me was that overwhelming number of messages that I get, DMs that I get every single day, and it took the guilt off of me. It’s like, “I can’t save everyone. I can’t respond to everyone. I’m only replying to ideal potential clients, and I’m only doing it two days a week.”
Libby Rothschild (25:20):
That’s great.
Melissa Groves Azzaro (25:22):
It’s hard because our brains are so trained that when we see that notification pop up to do something or get anxiety about it, so I’ve trained myself to ignore the little [inaudible 00:25:38].
Libby Rothschild (25:37):
Yeah. It’s really-
Melissa Groves Azzaro (25:37):
I just go through on my terms when I have time.
Libby Rothschild (25:41):
Yeah, and it’s really full circle, right? Because we mentioned at the beginning of this interview that you are creating content for your ideal client, and then you are also responding and engaging only with your ideal client, and it is difficult on so many levels.
Libby Rothschild (25:55):
At first, it’s difficult to talk to one person. Then it’s difficult to hear people complain that you’re not talking to other people, and then you have to process what is the best use of your time as a business owner to give the best service and value to your audience, and sometimes at your level, that means you don’t respond to all of the messages if they’re not related to who you’re helping.
Libby Rothschild (26:15):
I like going down that tiered approach and I think that for the listeners who haven’t experienced that yet, knowing that that can come is a sign of success. I really appreciate you sharing how you’ve been able to handle that.
Melissa Groves Azzaro (26:27):
I would love to be able to shoot the poop about hormones in my DMs all day, but that does not pay the bills. I really have to limit the amount of interaction to the ones who are going to be appropriate clients right away.
Libby Rothschild (26:48):
That is part of your sales strategy, right?
Melissa Groves Azzaro (26:50):
It is, yeah.
Libby Rothschild (26:51):
Yep, I love that. Thank you for sharing that. Couple last questions to wrap up here. What has been the biggest challenge and surprisingly easier than expected with regard to your offer?
Melissa Groves Azzaro (27:04):
Yeah, the biggest challenge actually hasn’t been around sales or marketing for me because that was my background. The biggest challenge has been a logistics thing with my one-on-one practice right now. I had set my packages up to include certain lab tests and one of those lab test companies just basically imploded and no longer offers those labs, so I’m still a little bit dealing with that.
Melissa Groves Azzaro (27:34):
Other than that, the biggest challenge is the same that it is for most people, which is time. Basically, since October, the way my husband describes it, is that I’ve been working three full-time jobs between developing the cookbook, launching the course, and then my client load.
Melissa Groves Azzaro (27:51):
On the other hand, what’s been easier than expected, I think I was letting my money mindset affect my pricing strategy early on so every time I raise my prices, I have that thought that no one will ever possibly pay this, but they’re still buying. It’s Business 101 with supply and demand. There’s only so much supply, which is me, so the prices keep going up, but the demand is enormous. Right now, I actually have 190 on my waitlist.
Libby Rothschild (28:30):
That’s amazing. Congratulations.
Melissa Groves Azzaro (28:32):
It’s crazy. It’s crazy. That was in the beginning when I would sweat a $20 increase or a $50 increase. It’s not even in that ballpark anymore.
Libby Rothschild (28:47):
I think that’s really inspiring for the listeners to think, and again, full circle. You built this waitlist 90-something percent from Instagram. It’s possible for the listeners and you’ve done it and I love that you can look back and say I used to sweat pricing increase tied to your mindset, which we all have. We’ve all struggled with that. Now you’re able to look back and see how far you’ve come and celebrating that win in this interview is really, really helpful for everybody listening.
Melissa Groves Azzaro (29:14):
Good. Good, good.
Libby Rothschild (29:15):
Really nice. What do you wish you would have known when you were starting out?
Melissa Groves Azzaro (29:20):
I actually wrote an article. If you go to my site AvocadoGroveNutrition.com and you click the RDs under the blog, I did write a post about Tips and Tricks for Starting a Practice because I do get so, so many. In addition to customers, I get so many questions from other RDs about how I started my business, that sort of thing. I’ve just invested the time to do it all at once, spell it all out so I’ve got all the things I use in there.
Melissa Groves Azzaro (29:55):
I think, probably, the biggest takeaway from that is don’t be afraid to invest money to make money. I see so many dietitians in Facebook groups worried about spending the money for a proper EHR or things like that. You don’t want to cobble together something that looks unprofessional. Spend the money. They will come. Same thing with the development of my course. I’ve always approached it from that mindset as what am I going to need later? Signing up with ConvertKit right away instead of trying to make do with the free Mailchimp because you know what? Then a year later when I was crazy busy, I didn’t have to take the time to move everything over because I already had it.
Libby Rothschild (30:46):
I totally, totally agree with that, by the way. I have a bone to pick with Mailchimp.
Melissa Groves Azzaro (30:50):
Yeah, I [inaudible 00:30:54] Mailchimp. It’s not intuitive. I find ConvertKit to be for someone with a writing background, it’s like I can, literally, just write it in there and it works fine. It’s very visual the way the funnels are set up, as well, so it’s super-easy for me to use. And it grows with you. It starts at a relative $29 a month. In the first three months of my business, I made zero money, but it made up for it later.
Libby Rothschild (31:30):
Absolutely.
Melissa Groves Azzaro (31:31):
Everything’s done and in there.
Libby Rothschild (31:33):
Yeah, I’ve had clients that have had to go back multiple times with their Mailchimp, and manually take the people over to ConvertKit. It doesn’t have to be ConvertKit. You can use any other email service provider, but that’s happened multiple times and I’m like, “Well, you know, you could have just went with ConvertKit in the first place.” I’m with you on that. I luckily did ConvertKit from the beginning.
Melissa Groves Azzaro (31:58):
Yeah, I would also say, in the beginning when you’re first starting out, focus in on collaboration with other people in your niche. I’m definitely a big fan of that. I’ve made some really valuable, not just from a business perspective, but really good relationship connections with other dietitians in my niche just simply because of the content I put out, and then we start chatting. Then every time I go to FNCE it’s like a big hug party.
Melissa Groves Azzaro (32:29):
But the more you can share what other people are doing, if you think it’s appropriate for your audience, if you can help someone out who has fewer followers than you do. I always try to boost other dietitians’ work because when you think about all the other people out there promoting nutrition and health-content, I’d rather my audience see what other dietitians are putting out because I know that’s good content and it’s scientifically sound. That’s the kind of stuff I want to expose them to, and it also gives me stuff to share in my Stories, so just to keep your Stories going all day but one of the other things I most commonly share in Stories is other dietitians’ posts.
Libby Rothschild (33:21):
Yeah. And I love the whole concept. Obviously, I’m a big fan of women helping women, dietitians helping dietitians, and I think it’s a really nice way for us to empower each other and then for us to break through some of the archaic-like belief systems in our field, and some of the messaging that we’ve been told that we, for example, can’t make money right away or all those types of things. It only helps us if we can help each other.
Melissa Groves Azzaro (33:44):
Right. Clearly, I have a wait list of 190. There’s enough work to go around. If someone wants to work with me sooner and I’m like, “Listen. It’s probably going to take four to six months.” I will refer them to a colleague if they have an opening and I know they have an opening.
Libby Rothschild (34:05):
That’s another benefit of that collaboration mindset, because at the end of the day we’re helping our clients, right?
Melissa Groves Azzaro (34:13):
It’s funny, I also see a lot of dietitians who are down about the fact that so many of their followers are other dietitians, as opposed to ideal clients. I definitely do have a very large dietitian following, but I have to say, dietitians are your best referers. They refer their sisters and their friends. I’ve had a surprising number of dietitian clients because, if you specialize in renal or clinical, you don’t know anything about fertility nutrition. Or you’ve just been diagnosed with PCOS.
Melissa Groves Azzaro (34:50):
I would go to a renal dietitian if I needed help there, or an oncology dietitian if I needed help with that, so I think knowing what other people’s niches are helps you to, when you do get those non-appropriate clients in your DMs, you can say, “Hey, my friend so-and-so does that. I highly recommend her,” which I do that kind of stuff all the time.
Libby Rothschild (35:18):
I love that. I love your abundance mindset, which has been a theme throughout this entire episode. I really like that reframe because I do hear that quite often in complaints, “Oh, I only have dietitians,” and again, an example of reframing that would say it’s going from I only have dietitians to saying I am supportive and happy and fortunate to have these followers. How can I build relationships, and then how can I ultimately serve my clients better?” You have shown how you’re able to do that with dietitian followers who, some might even be ideal clients, but not assuming that they would be, but building that relationship has helped you serve your bottom line, so wonderful story-tell-
Melissa Groves Azzaro (35:53):
Absolutely.
Libby Rothschild (35:53):
Yep. Love that. And then if you could just end us off today with letting us know what’s next in your business.
Melissa Groves Azzaro (36:00):
Yeah, I’m actually really excited. I was planning on relaunching my PCOS course in April, but I’ve been taking the temperature of what’s going on. I do think now that people are starting to accept the situation is what it is, they’ll be able to start thinking about like, “Oh, what am I going to do to entertain myself?” So I do think using some sensitive marketing would still be an okay time to launch the course.
Melissa Groves Azzaro (36:33):
In the fall, I’ll do a relaunch with all the bells and whistles. I tried to just get it out there as quickly as possible for January and continue to build out my PCOS offers so the low, medium, high. Then I want to move on and start building up my fertility offers and other hormone condition offers. I feel very fortunate that I was already set up to be 100% virtual before any of the shutdowns happened. I’ve been continually surveying my audience right now to see what they want from me at this time. They say they want normal stuff, but they’re not engaging with normal stuff. We’ll see what happens.
Melissa Groves Azzaro (37:20):
And then I’m about to open my wait list, which I’ve had in place while I was completing the book. Then from a personal and business growth perspective, my goals this year are really to focus on SEO. That’s the next thing for me. I got this gorgeous, beautiful website, so now that I have that, I’m going to start working on SEO. I also want to get a better handle on Facebook ads.
Melissa Groves Azzaro (37:49):
I take courses and hire coaches based on what my specific need is at the time, so those, I think, are my next two biggest needs to really get under control, because now my practice is on auto-pilot. My Instagram’s in a good place. I’ve got a book coming out in August. It’s PCOS Meal Prep Cookbook with a publisher, so that’s really exciting. They found me on Instagram, as well.
Libby Rothschild (38:20):
Amazing. Amazing.
Melissa Groves Azzaro (38:20):
I know. And then I also-
Libby Rothschild (38:23):
Congratulations.
Melissa Groves Azzaro (38:24):
Thank you. And I also was just elected chair-elect of the dietitians in the Integrative Functional Medicine Group, so I’m really excited to get started with that and transition out of the social media chair role for that. I post their social media in 19,000 followers on Facebook. We do three posts a day on Facebook. I do Instagram. I do Twitter for them, and I have for the last two years, so I’m a little excited about changing my role in that group.
Libby Rothschild (38:57):
Absolutely. And we’ll all make sure to be able to support and watch you grow, so.
Melissa Groves Azzaro (39:03):
That is actually something else that I would add to when dietitians are first starting out, get involved, especially if you’re young. Boards are desperate for young people with fresh ideas.
Melissa Groves Azzaro (39:19):
I got involved with my State Board pretty early on, and then a different opportunity came up and I was like, “Sure. Why not?” But the connections you make are invaluable. You get to travel to the conferences and interact with people who are inspirational. The [inaudible 00:39:39] board, they blow me away with their… They’re all really brilliant and smart marketers, too. Inspiring, but yeah, get involved because the networking… You never know what’s going to lead to what’s down the road.
Libby Rothschild (39:54):
Fantastic. Thank you so much for your time today. It’s been a pleasure.
Melissa Groves Azzaro (39:58):
Thank you for having me. I really enjoyed this.
Libby Rothschild (40:01):
If you identify as a female dietitian or student, apply to my coaching program. I’m accepting applications now. My clients go from zero to exceeding their sales goals. I save you time, energy, and I show you how to confidently become a dietitian boss. Thousands of your colleagues from around the world are doing it and so can you. Apply on my website libbyrothschild.com. Check the show notes if you want that link right away.
